I pioneered 3 years from 1980-83. Then I was paroled. My school counselor was very surprised I didn't take the SATs, and called me in several times to get me to change my mind. She said she knew someone at Stanford and could get me a full scholarship there if I wanted it. Of course I refused. Stupid woman, doesn't she realise the End Is Near? Oh well, at least I met my wife (she pioneered 13 years) and we've been blissfully married for 19 years now.
Big Tex
JoinedPosts by Big Tex
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35
hands up ex-pioneers
by sleepy inso how many here were pioneers?
ha ha ha.
i used up my teenage years pioneering, good thing i didn't go to college or university i could be well educated and in a good job.poo.
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DO NOT RESIST JEHOVAH"S ORGANIZATION
by minimus inwatchtower 1965, page 429 says, "instead of opposing a change in scriptural understanding, organizational procedure or organizational structure,it is better to adjust oneself to it, remembering that, whatever change is made by god's organization, the change is for the good of those in it.
to resist this advancement is to resist jehovah's spirit that operates on the organization, causing it to advance.......although a person may not at first appreciate the need for a change, as time passes he will begin to see how it benefits the organization.
".........so there you have it, whether you think something is right or wrong is not the point; the point is you must do as you are told, because benefitting the organization is all that's important.
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Big Tex
Years ago I remember a CO's talk about "Waiting on Jehovah" and he used what I always thought was a curious illustration. It seems back before the "New Light" showed that celebrating birthdays (30's? 40's?) was evil, there was a brother at Bethel who kinda jumped the gun a little. He went round and round with anyone who would listen about how birthday celebration was wrong and the Watchtower should immediately put out an article banning it. Well it seemed that the Powers That Be didn't agree and he left Bethel in a huff. A few years later, lo and behold the Society came out and said that birthday celebration was wrong. The CO used that point to tell everyone that this brother did not Wait On Jehovah.
I was just a kid, but I remember thinking, even back then, about the blood issue and how unfair it would be if someone died for refusing a transfusion and then later the Society would make it a conscience issue. Personally, I believe God gave us a brain for a reason. We need to use to think, to reason and to judge for ourselves what is right and wrong.
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So-called Bible Scholars........
by hillary_step init is not a difficult thing to do to criticize wts literature, however i found this comment in a recent wt very enlightening as it seems to explain the unscholarly nature of much of what they produce.
it also is an object lesson on how to manipulate a conditioned group of people by the use of 'trigger words'.
i have highlighted these expressions, which are deliberately used by writing, as we have previously discussed to 'encourage' the readers to adopt a patently flawed line of reasoning.
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Big Tex
Fascinating thread and good comments all around. My own thought is that this is just another in a long line of hypocritical stances by the Society. Note that they criticise "worldly" scholars for seeking the original meanings of Greek and Hebrew words and yet isn't the seeking out of "true" and "original" meanings one of the tenents that is supposed to set Jehovah's Witnesses apart from the mainstream? For example, they do not celebrate Christmas, Easter and birthdays because of the origins of the holidays. They do not believe in that Jesus died on a cross, because of the origins of the word used in the Gospels. So many of their teachings claim to go back to the "true" intent of the first century apostles and yet now when it is convenient for them, they criticise scholars for working at understanding the very words of the Bible. I mean, shouldn't the point of religon be the greater understanding of the Bible? Evidently not. Evidently the way to salvation is a greater understanding of the Watchtower (and let's not get into the "b" question!).
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How Pure Are You?
by MrMoe inomg i am like super wicked....
http://test.thespark.com/puritytest/.
you are 29% pure!
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Big Tex
67% pure. Okay, gotta get busy this weekend . . . .
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Confused
by AlphaPlus inthis is gonna take a while so bear with me .... i dunno where to start.
well i'm still a jw, still going to meetings etc although you do feel pretty bad sitting there knowing you'd like to be any place else.
like i've read from so many of you i've been the perfect jw kid excellent meeting attendence, good field service blah blah all that crap.
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Big Tex
I don't know if I'm a good one to answer this or not, but here goes. I started studying when I was 9, baptized when I was 11. So I kinda know what you're going through. I stopped going to meetings though when I was 26. And yes, I did lose all my friends and family. My dad and sisters haven't spoken to me in 10 years, even though I'm not disfellowshipped or disassociated. All I can tell you is sooner or later you've got to be who you are. Even more importantly, you've got to have the right to believe in what, and who, you want even if that means losing friends and family. And yeah, it does hurt. But then you begin to rebuild and find friends that are not so narrow minded and judgmental. I haven't regretted my decision once. It's tough, but the bottom line is you've got to decide who you are and what you're going to do with your life. Good luck mate!
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Big Tex
This is an organisation that will disfellowship Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson. Yet they will keep a convicted sex offender. Well, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, maybe it's a duck!
By the way, the offender was convicted in 1999 and they are just NOW starting an internal investigation?
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Rules For Dating My Daughter
by DakotaRed in"ten simple rules for dating my daughter".
some thoughtful information for those who are daughters, were daughters, have daughters, intend to have daughters, or intend to date a daughter.. rule one: if you pull into my driveway and honk you'd better be delivering a package, because you're sure not picking anything up.. rule two: you do not touch my daughter in front of me.
you may glance at her, so long as you do not peer at anything below her neck.
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Need Help - New JW Pedophile Project (Links)
by Amazing inps: a poster emailed these links and i think they will help with the following project: .
the american professional society on the abuse of children.
click here: http://www.apsac.org/.
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Big Tex
To 4skins:
By your logic, why should we bother to incarcerate convicted murderers? They'll cost us taxpayers money too. Or anyone else convicted of a crime? Hey, why not save the taxpayers a lot of money and just get rid of prisons all over the country? That'll save millions of dollars!
I am a survivor of abuse. I know that pedophiles do not stop. Unless they are physically prevented from having contact with children, they will continue to rape and molest. When I was in therapy, my psychologist said she used to treat pedophiles but had to stop. I asked her why, and she said it was because they were so self-absorbed they couldn't care less about anyone but themselves and worse, they showed no remorse for their crimes whatsoever. She said one told her that he used to pick his victims based on which child appeared happiest, and it was his goal to "wipe that smile off their face." You're correct when you say these people are sick. But they don't need treatment. They need to be isolated for the rest of their lives. There are few truly evil people in this world and anyone who looks at a child as a sexual object and then acts on that desire, is truly evil and beyond redemption.
As a survivor of abuse I can tell you that not ALL victims grow up to be as evil as the men that raped them. Research shows that very few childhood victims of sexual abuse grow up to be perpetrators themselves. In fact, not every pedophile was victimized. Certainly most are, but please be careful in making sweeping generalities about a complex problem. As far as what happens to them in prison, I say who cares? Whatever happens to them is too good. And why are you so concerned about money? If taxes are good for anything, I believe it is to protect good and decent men, women and children.
As for your admonition regarding people's attitude on this board, realise that everyone is in a different place in their journey. Many people who come here have been hideously mistreated by an organisation that claims to be loving, truthful and honest. That level of betrayal is not easily forgiven or forgotten. In a vacuum, yes we should all forgive those who hurt us, cheerfullly and willingly. But before you throw that down here, go through the experience yourself. You'll find it's not so easily done.
You make a curious case. On one hand, you defend men and women who have raped, lied, mutilated and totally destroyed thousands of children, men and women who for the most part have escaped any punishment whatsoever, and yet on the other hand you wag your finger at people whose only "crime" appears to be a slowness (by your reckoning) to forgive. Seems kind of backwards to me.
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Don't buy into Ray Franz's stumbling block.
by Bleep inray franz wrote, "i was baptized a jehovah's witness in 1972 (three years before armageddon came) and served as an elder for a good number of years.
all i can say is put franz book to the test for yourself.
1)he is making money off a dumb idea.. 2)he was expecting 1975 to be armageddon.
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Big Tex
Bleep:
Son, you've got some problems. You said, " Many people are disfellowshiped for doing wrong. Ethics and Morals are GOOD ." What about Bill Bowen? What "wrong" thing did he do? Show me where God disapproves of us speaking the truth? Give me a Biblical example of God forbidding the exposure of corruption. What about Barbara Anderson? What immoral or unethical act did she commit? Since when is it "wrong" to tell a news reporter the truth? And if it's an embarrassing, or painful truth, is that wrong? What about David and Bathsheba? Surely that reflected badly on the one true religon. Surely the prophet Nathan was stoned or banished from Israel for speaking up to the king. Right? A CO sat in my living room and told me that if I said one more word about my incestuous JW family, I would be disfellowshipped. He didn't doubt the accuracy of my story, he just wanted me to shut up and go away. Is that treating the "flock" with tenderness and compassion? Is that ethical? Moral? If it happened to me, it's happened to others. Disfellowshipping is a JW way of killing someone to keep them quiet.
Second: You said, " So which Ethical thing is worse? Quoting a writer from a reader or a writer not even quoting a real name?" About 30 years ago, a couple of reporters from Washington Post helped bring down a corrupt President using nothing but unnamed sources. Was that unethical? Immoral? Sometimes a source, or a whistleblower, wants anonymity because they fear the obvious and immediate repurcussions from their stepping forward. If you doubt that, your hold on reality is more tenuous than I thought.
Third: You said, " 4)The book costs money and not a donation. " So what? Shakespeare charged for his writings, as did Plato, Socrates and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Association. I pounded the pavement for 18 years charging people money for books, magazines and anything else they told us to sell. Are you saying that now that they ask for a donation it somehow makes WTBS ethical and moral? Thank god for the "New Light", what would they do without it?
Bleep, the wheels are just shooting off your little red Witness wagon. If you didn't like the book, fine. But why be so vitrolic toward anyone else who wants to? In all candor, I have not read Mr. Franz' book, but after reading your oh-so-accurate review, I will make it a point now.
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Please welcome this new member..... thanks
by LyinEyes ini just wanted to introduce you all to a new member, he goes by the name of pretender.
he made his first post today, and i am hoping he will continue to come in.
he is a wonderful person and he has alot to offer.
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